Comments on: Was Janet Frame on the Autistic Spectrum? http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/ A website to advocate, provide a voice, stimulate policy debate and provide essential information to people on the autistic spectrum and their friends and families. Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:45:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: Sarah Abrahamson http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-243 Sarah Abrahamson Sun, 01 Jun 2008 07:57:38 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-243 Hi Caroline: I'm glad this debate is interesting and maybe helpful to you. I also feel that many other mental health issues, while not necessarily fitting into the strict categories of autism and aspergers, are closely related and should be considered at least partly developmental disabilities: we have a very narrow view of developmental disabilties now, I feel: limited mainly to the intellectually handicapped and some people with autism and ADD. Hi Caroline:
I’m glad this debate is interesting and maybe helpful to you. I also feel that many other mental health issues, while not necessarily fitting into the strict categories of autism and aspergers, are closely related and should be considered at least partly developmental disabilities: we have a very narrow view of developmental disabilties now, I feel: limited mainly to the intellectually handicapped and some people with autism and ADD.

]]> By: Caroline http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-237 Caroline Mon, 19 May 2008 07:14:21 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-237 I just read this page and found it very helpful. Thank you. I believe that many people ( I think I may be one of them) are being diagnosed with a battery of mental health issues when they may have AS. The importance of this if not in the name, but learning effective ways to address the condition and improve quality of life. Realising that prominent people also have this condition, is helpful to both those with the condition and the general public (as shown by the tv ads about depression) I just read this page and found it very helpful. Thank you. I believe that many people ( I think I may be one of them) are being diagnosed with a battery of mental health issues when they may have AS. The importance of this if not in the name, but learning effective ways to address the condition and improve quality of life. Realising that prominent people also have this condition, is helpful to both those with the condition and the general public (as shown by the tv ads about depression)

]]> By: John http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-235 John Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:52:13 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-235 Andrew asked for a forum site: Under 16 = www.withyoueverystepoftheway.com Over 16 = www.asplanet.info (christchurch-based) Thanks Andrew asked for a forum site:
Under 16 = www.withyoueverystepoftheway.com
Over 16 = www.asplanet.info (christchurch-based)
Thanks

]]> By: Sarah Abrahamson http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-145 Sarah Abrahamson Tue, 04 Dec 2007 10:53:55 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-145 Maybe: but as someone who has now spent hundreds of hours learning about ASDs, I don't think it is so mysterious! The thing with ASDs is that communication with pure written language is often seen by the person to represent their true, best self, as Janet describes in Towards Another Summer: verbal communication may be haphazard and varies greatly with the skills needed and learnt in each situation. Her autobiography is also not so much art, but a stated true account of her life, told much more fluently than if she had attempted to convey this information verbally. Remember the key issue in high-functioning autism is not a complete lack of communication, but difficulty with verbal social communication. Giving formal speeches or performances is often unaffected, and written communication often excellent. Donna Williams is a case in point of this difference: she writes as well as Janet Frame, I think, but writes formally about the experience of having an ASD, and has difficulty with verbal social communication. Her life is remarkably similar in many ways to Janet Frame's. Another example is the classic "computer nerd" picture: someone who is happy to talk online and by email but not so much in person, typical of an ASD. According to her niece in the book review for Towards Another Summer, Janet was one of the first computer nerds in NZ! Remember also that the vast majority of adults with ASDs do not yet have a diagnosis: if we look only at those with a diagnosis to compare we see mainly the most severe end of the spectrum, or those who are lucky enough to be diagnosed by, for example, having a relative who is a psychologist. Thankyou Daniel, for disagreeing politely with me without insults! For some reason those who have disagreed with this article have felt that normal manners do not apply: it is great to see there is someone who can do so rationally, and of course you are quite entitled to your opinion. People seem to have forgotten the idea of rational scientific debate relating to this issue: perhaps having an Arts PhD does not encourage such debate as strongly as medicine! Maybe: but as someone who has now spent hundreds of hours learning about ASDs, I don’t think it is so mysterious! The thing with ASDs is that communication with pure written language is often seen by the person to represent their true, best self, as Janet describes in Towards Another Summer: verbal communication may be haphazard and varies greatly with the skills needed and learnt in each situation. Her autobiography is also not so much art, but a stated true account of her life, told much more fluently than if she had attempted to convey this information verbally. Remember the key issue in high-functioning autism is not a complete lack of communication, but difficulty with verbal social communication. Giving formal speeches or performances is often unaffected, and written communication often excellent. Donna Williams is a case in point of this difference: she writes as well as Janet Frame, I think, but writes formally about the experience of having an ASD, and has difficulty with verbal social communication. Her life is remarkably similar in many ways to Janet Frame’s. Another example is the classic “computer nerd” picture: someone who is happy to talk online and by email but not so much in person, typical of an ASD. According to her niece in the book review for Towards Another Summer, Janet was one of the first computer nerds in NZ!
Remember also that the vast majority of adults with ASDs do not yet have a diagnosis: if we look only at those with a diagnosis to compare we see mainly the most severe end of the spectrum, or those who are lucky enough to be diagnosed by, for example, having a relative who is a psychologist.
Thankyou Daniel, for disagreeing politely with me without insults! For some reason those who have disagreed with this article have felt that normal manners do not apply: it is great to see there is someone who can do so rationally, and of course you are quite entitled to your opinion. People seem to have forgotten the idea of rational scientific debate relating to this issue: perhaps having an Arts PhD does not encourage such debate as strongly as medicine!

]]> By: Daniel Bailey http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-138 Daniel Bailey Mon, 03 Dec 2007 02:37:03 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-138 Interesting conversation to have without actually meeting someone. My older sister is the only person I know who is diagnosed as being autistic and she does not use English to communicate, so while I was exposed to Autism while growing up I can't say I know how an Autistic person places themself in the world - however it strikes me from my limited experience that the further into the scale of Autism one goes the further removed from communication outside world they get yet Janet Frame has offered some of the more elaborately structured communication of feelings and thoughts one may encounter. Is it truly possible to understand a person by viewing what is essentially their art? How many people would be willing to share the thoughts and fantasies they entertained while going through tough times - and if you did, do you think complete strangers would have sufficient information (or any right) to tell the world what kind of person you are? Enjoy the fact that her work is here to be enjoyed, as that what was offered. As far as everyone here should be concerned, she is a mysterious talented author who offered her creations for the rest of us to enjoy - perhaps just leave it at that... Interesting conversation to have without actually meeting someone. My older sister is the only person I know who is diagnosed as being autistic and she does not use English to communicate, so while I was exposed to Autism while growing up I can’t say I know how an Autistic person places themself in the world - however it strikes me from my limited experience that the further into the scale of Autism one goes the further removed from communication outside world they get yet Janet Frame has offered some of the more elaborately structured communication of feelings and thoughts one may encounter.

Is it truly possible to understand a person by viewing what is essentially their art? How many people would be willing to share the thoughts and fantasies they entertained while going through tough times - and if you did, do you think complete strangers would have sufficient information (or any right) to tell the world what kind of person you are?

Enjoy the fact that her work is here to be enjoyed, as that what was offered. As far as everyone here should be concerned, she is a mysterious talented author who offered her creations for the rest of us to enjoy - perhaps just leave it at that…

]]> By: Sarah Abrahamson http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-132 Sarah Abrahamson Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:59:58 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-132 More about Janet Frame: thoughts about "Towards Another Summer", a rather negative Listener article, and a medical journal letter commenting on this issue. It was suggested that we should leave Janet in peace and not talk about her in this way after she has gone, as this is not respectful and we did not know her personally. I say if she did not want her autobiographies analysed by the general population, including those with all sorts of qualifications and with personal ASD experience, why did she publish them? Why did she agree to such a detailed biography being written about her? Perhaps she actually eventually saw herself as having AS/HFA, having heard about autism from her great niece’s diagnosis, and withheld publishing “Towards Another Summer” as she knew that it clearly describes the internal mental state of someone with AS/HFA. It is unlikely she would have been comfortable with the publicity she would have received if she had announced herself as having AS/HFA, as we know she did not like publicity. However, perhaps she saw this as a puzzle to be solved by her readers and family after she had gone. I wonder if she wrote anything saying she felt she did, or did not, have an ASD. If she did, and it said she did not feel that she did, surely we would have heard of this by now from her neice. Has anyone else read this book to comment? More about Janet Frame: thoughts about “Towards Another Summer”, a rather negative Listener article, and a medical journal letter commenting on this issue. It was suggested that we should leave Janet in peace and not talk about her in this way after she has gone, as this is not respectful and we did not know her personally. I say if she did not want her autobiographies analysed by the general population, including those with all sorts of qualifications and with personal ASD experience, why did she publish them? Why did she agree to such a detailed biography being written about her?
Perhaps she actually eventually saw herself as having AS/HFA, having heard about autism from her great niece’s diagnosis, and withheld publishing “Towards Another Summer” as she knew that it clearly describes the internal mental state of someone with AS/HFA. It is unlikely she would have been comfortable with the publicity she would have received if she had announced herself as having AS/HFA, as we know she did not like publicity. However, perhaps she saw this as a puzzle to be solved by her readers and family after she had gone. I wonder if she wrote anything saying she felt she did, or did not, have an ASD. If she did, and it said she did not feel that she did, surely we would have heard of this by now from her neice.
Has anyone else read this book to comment?

]]> By: Matthew Buchanan http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-121 Matthew Buchanan Wed, 14 Nov 2007 04:35:43 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-121 Hi Robyn, point taken on the grey-on-grey, it could be more contrasty in places for the visually-impaired. Are you aware that your web browser can increase the font size right on the page though? Each browser does it in a slightly different manner: IE7 has an item called PageZoom, most others have a Text Size control in the menu somewhere, which will blow the text up in the browser if you're having issues with it being too small. Hi Robyn, point taken on the grey-on-grey, it could be more contrasty in places for the visually-impaired. Are you aware that your web browser can increase the font size right on the page though? Each browser does it in a slightly different manner: IE7 has an item called PageZoom, most others have a Text Size control in the menu somewhere, which will blow the text up in the browser if you’re having issues with it being too small.

]]> By: Robyn http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-120 Robyn Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:06:09 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-120 Very informative and thought provoking posts. I am always interested in learning more about the world of disability and impairment, and I love Janet Frame's work. However this site is really hard to read. Because it is grey on grey I had to cut and paste into Word before I could enlarge it enough to see it, and I certainly can't read the instrustions relating to tags Very informative and thought provoking posts. I am always interested in learning more about the world of disability and impairment, and I love Janet Frame’s work.
However this site is really hard to read. Because it is grey on grey I had to cut and paste into Word before I could enlarge it enough to see it, and I certainly can’t read the instrustions relating to tags

]]> By: lesley http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-119 lesley Sun, 11 Nov 2007 03:23:18 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-119 Actually I had another thought (excuse me) from my neophyte psychology-studying brain (just completed a first year paper so i am no expert) but found it interesting reading about one of symptoms of schizophrenia being loose associational thought, because I consider the ability/tendancy to make wild leaps of association, which is clearly evident in Janet Frame's writing being a potential aspect of autistic thinking also, in perhaps a different way than in schizophrenia. In one of Michelle Dawson et al's papers on Learning in Autism, they describe the process of the categorisation of thought being an automatic and involuntary process in non-autistic people, yet in autism this appears to be optional, that is it can be much more possible for an autistic person to link thoughts along more freely associational lines rather than have their thought bound by more mutually-recognised socially-normal patterns. Actually I had another thought (excuse me) from my neophyte psychology-studying brain (just completed a first year paper so i am no expert) but found it interesting reading about one of symptoms of schizophrenia being loose associational thought, because I consider the ability/tendancy to make wild leaps of association, which is clearly evident in Janet Frame’s writing being a potential aspect of autistic thinking also, in perhaps a different way than in schizophrenia. In one of Michelle Dawson et al’s papers on Learning in Autism, they describe the process of the categorisation of thought being an automatic and involuntary process in non-autistic people, yet in autism this appears to be optional, that is it can be much more possible for an autistic person to link thoughts along more freely associational lines rather than have their thought bound by more mutually-recognised socially-normal patterns.

]]> By: lesley http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-118 lesley Sun, 11 Nov 2007 03:13:14 +0000 http://humans.org.nz/2007/11/08/was-janet-frame-on-the-autistic-spectrum/#comment-118 PS I also was very disappointed by the newspaper article about the alarming increase in autism. It seemed the dismissal of the possibility that this could be to do with diagnostic methods was way too swift and unconsidered. Very annoying to see an unconstructive myth perpetuated. Not to mention the overall negative tone. PS I also was very disappointed by the newspaper article about the alarming increase in autism. It seemed the dismissal of the possibility that this could be to do with diagnostic methods was way too swift and unconsidered. Very annoying to see an unconstructive myth perpetuated. Not to mention the overall negative tone.

]]>