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	<title>Comments on: Common sense is not common</title>
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	<description>A website to advocate, provide a voice, stimulate policy debate and provide essential information to people on the autistic spectrum and their friends and families.</description>
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		<title>By: Lyn</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-791</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Nov 2010 21:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-791</guid>
		<description>This discussion about aspergers is interesting, but I have a son/son age 36yrs who have undiagnosed ASD.The question is how and where can they be assessed and assisted. There are other ASD kids in the extended family, yoynger and diagnosed but those in the pre diagnosis age groups don,t seem to have access to anything and this is very difficult for them AND the family. We need help for the kids an us</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion about aspergers is interesting, but I have a son/son age 36yrs who have undiagnosed ASD.The question is how and where can they be assessed and assisted. There are other ASD kids in the extended family, yoynger and diagnosed but those in the pre diagnosis age groups don,t seem to have access to anything and this is very difficult for them AND the family. We need help for the kids an us</p>
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		<title>By: John at Asperger's Syndrome NZ</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-663</link>
		<dc:creator>John at Asperger's Syndrome NZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 23:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-663</guid>
		<description>My child’s ‘difference’ was spotted by a kindy teacher aide 8 years ago.  The aide kindly and quietly suggested he be assessed.  The aide’s supervisor disagreed and was tempted to discipline the aide.  An extremely qualified paediatrician, a Kiwi autism diagnosis pioneer, promptly diagnosed my son as having Asperger’s Syndrome and congratulated me.  I will always be grateful to the young inquisitive observant well-trained aide.

Turns out my boy was different, and quirky -all the time.  Wonderfully so.  But I would not term his condition ‘mild’ when the correct words are ‘profound’ and ‘encompassing’.  There are times, at transition points and crises, when only the phrase ‘less-severe autism’ suffices too.

The world has fundamentally changed.  These children who decades ago could ‘slip through unnoticed’ in a classroom, home or workplace setting are no longer able to remain invisible.

‘Common sense’, best defined as the immediate apprehension of the bloody obvious, dictates that a profound difference be enquired into, acknowledged, accommodated and allowed for, at least to the degree the more flexible 99% of the population is willing.  But that’s the real beef here isn’t it.  Some aren’t.

And that’s why I started Asperger’s Syndrome New Zealand - just for us autists with lived actual experience of the creaking painful raphsody that is Asperger’s, because my son and I were fed-up with all the utter crap being mouthed about ‘cure’, ‘disorder’, ‘mild’, ‘fad’, ‘dangerous’, ‘ABA’, ‘savant’, etc., and we quietly proceed knowing the biggest issue in autism today is really about making a place for the displaced.  And that is not going to happen – ever – without us all being asked how to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My child’s ‘difference’ was spotted by a kindy teacher aide 8 years ago.  The aide kindly and quietly suggested he be assessed.  The aide’s supervisor disagreed and was tempted to discipline the aide.  An extremely qualified paediatrician, a Kiwi autism diagnosis pioneer, promptly diagnosed my son as having Asperger’s Syndrome and congratulated me.  I will always be grateful to the young inquisitive observant well-trained aide.</p>
<p>Turns out my boy was different, and quirky -all the time.  Wonderfully so.  But I would not term his condition ‘mild’ when the correct words are ‘profound’ and ‘encompassing’.  There are times, at transition points and crises, when only the phrase ‘less-severe autism’ suffices too.</p>
<p>The world has fundamentally changed.  These children who decades ago could ‘slip through unnoticed’ in a classroom, home or workplace setting are no longer able to remain invisible.</p>
<p>‘Common sense’, best defined as the immediate apprehension of the bloody obvious, dictates that a profound difference be enquired into, acknowledged, accommodated and allowed for, at least to the degree the more flexible 99% of the population is willing.  But that’s the real beef here isn’t it.  Some aren’t.</p>
<p>And that’s why I started Asperger’s Syndrome New Zealand &#8211; just for us autists with lived actual experience of the creaking painful raphsody that is Asperger’s, because my son and I were fed-up with all the utter crap being mouthed about ‘cure’, ‘disorder’, ‘mild’, ‘fad’, ‘dangerous’, ‘ABA’, ‘savant’, etc., and we quietly proceed knowing the biggest issue in autism today is really about making a place for the displaced.  And that is not going to happen – ever – without us all being asked how to.</p>
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		<title>By: geared</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-654</link>
		<dc:creator>geared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Apr 2010 10:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-654</guid>
		<description>a friend had an assessment done for AS, cost $400 and lasted only an hour..the &#039;result&#039; was a diagnosis of depression, and a prescription for medication..there is no denial that this person suffers from depression, but it is mostly caused by the social and communication difficulties they have had to deal with all their lives..the assessment failed to uncover  anxiety issues, low tolerance to stress etc; the employment problems,its a bit hard to find work when you dont like dealing with people; the housing problems due to lack of money and employment..
this person is currently trying to live on $250. a week due to having a breakdown, $150 of that is taken out for rent, the rest is to pay power,food,water,transport,medical etc..no wonder there is such a high occurence of suicides amongst AS adults..its so bloody hard to get ahead when there is a lack of help, understanding, acceptance and tolerance etc. this lack of understanding and discrimination, is very alive and well in the medical/health/goverment related sectors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a friend had an assessment done for AS, cost $400 and lasted only an hour..the &#8216;result&#8217; was a diagnosis of depression, and a prescription for medication..there is no denial that this person suffers from depression, but it is mostly caused by the social and communication difficulties they have had to deal with all their lives..the assessment failed to uncover  anxiety issues, low tolerance to stress etc; the employment problems,its a bit hard to find work when you dont like dealing with people; the housing problems due to lack of money and employment..<br />
this person is currently trying to live on $250. a week due to having a breakdown, $150 of that is taken out for rent, the rest is to pay power,food,water,transport,medical etc..no wonder there is such a high occurence of suicides amongst AS adults..its so bloody hard to get ahead when there is a lack of help, understanding, acceptance and tolerance etc. this lack of understanding and discrimination, is very alive and well in the medical/health/goverment related sectors.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Brown</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-649</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-649</guid>
		<description>To be honest geared, at both our formal assessments (even back in the old days) I knew every question I was going to be asked. By the time it happens you&#039;ve spent a long time thinking about it.

Which is where I take issue with Nigel. A teacher who&#039;s spent six months managing a kid has had a lot more time interacting and observing behaviour than a diagnostician will ever have. I tend to think an experienced teacher suggesting that Asperger&#039;s is the issue isn&#039;t such a bad thing. It&#039;s what leads to a formal diagnosis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest geared, at both our formal assessments (even back in the old days) I knew every question I was going to be asked. By the time it happens you&#8217;ve spent a long time thinking about it.</p>
<p>Which is where I take issue with Nigel. A teacher who&#8217;s spent six months managing a kid has had a lot more time interacting and observing behaviour than a diagnostician will ever have. I tend to think an experienced teacher suggesting that Asperger&#8217;s is the issue isn&#8217;t such a bad thing. It&#8217;s what leads to a formal diagnosis.</p>
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		<title>By: geared</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-647</link>
		<dc:creator>geared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-647</guid>
		<description>if there are only a few people in nz qualified to make a diagnosis of aspergers, who are they please?? 
can a through assessment be done by a &#039;specialist&#039;,
 just by spending an hour talking to an adult suspected of having aspergers, without talking with the persons partner,family etc..without doing any other testing like, if a person understands facial expressions, social interaction etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if there are only a few people in nz qualified to make a diagnosis of aspergers, who are they please??<br />
can a through assessment be done by a &#8217;specialist&#8217;,<br />
 just by spending an hour talking to an adult suspected of having aspergers, without talking with the persons partner,family etc..without doing any other testing like, if a person understands facial expressions, social interaction etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Latta</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Latta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-641</guid>
		<description>We can agree on that, but I still wouldn&#039;t want to lose the point that it isn&#039;t the smallest problem either. I&#039;d just rather we lifted our game and got it right for everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can agree on that, but I still wouldn&#8217;t want to lose the point that it isn&#8217;t the smallest problem either. I&#8217;d just rather we lifted our game and got it right for everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Brown</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-640</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-640</guid>
		<description>Thanks for responding, Nigel. As I&#039;ve said offline, the story did anger me, but I appreciate your willingness to debate it.

Essentially, my point was that incorrect diagnosis isn&#039;t the biggest problem in this sphere; far from it. Might we agree on that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for responding, Nigel. As I&#8217;ve said offline, the story did anger me, but I appreciate your willingness to debate it.</p>
<p>Essentially, my point was that incorrect diagnosis isn&#8217;t the biggest problem in this sphere; far from it. Might we agree on that?</p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-639</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-639</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen drafts of short electronic resources that have been developed from the NZ ASD Guideline work which will provide useful information about identification and diagnosis. Separate resources for clinicians, parents and others. They are being released soon (April I think) and will be widely available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen drafts of short electronic resources that have been developed from the NZ ASD Guideline work which will provide useful information about identification and diagnosis. Separate resources for clinicians, parents and others. They are being released soon (April I think) and will be widely available.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Latta</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-638</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Latta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-638</guid>
		<description>Fair enough that you didn&#039;t know I&#039;d been misquoted, but you will have to forgive me for getting a bit tetchy when I&#039;m faced yet again with someone I actually agree with, having a crack at me for things I don&#039;t believe. I made the comments because I&#039;ve seen increasing numbers of parents who have been told that their children have autistic features by lay people when they do not. Just as misdiagnosis is damaging for families of ASD  children, it is also damaging for families where children are not ASD. No one is helped by misdiagnosis. No one. I wasn&#039;t trying to grandstand but was trying to say exactly the opposite (ie &quot;I don&#039;t know enough about autism to make an accurate clinical diagnosis, but I at least know enough to know my limitations in that regard. I have come across a range of professionals who make this diagnosis who shouldn&#039;t because, like me, they aren&#039;t sufficiently qualified to do it&quot;) I didn&#039;t see that as grandstanding but rather was trying to make the point that we need to lift our game. Clearly I didn&#039;t do a very good job of expressing that. I completely and unreservedly agree about the need for more understanding and information because I too have seen the suffering which ensues when professionals get it wrong, albeit not as a parent. I do believe that common sense isn&#039;t that common anymore when it comes to raising children, but I also believe that common sense dictates that children with special needs, be that ASD or anything else for that matter, deserve to be seen by people who really know what they&#039;re doing. I&#039;ll try and do a better job of expressing that next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough that you didn&#8217;t know I&#8217;d been misquoted, but you will have to forgive me for getting a bit tetchy when I&#8217;m faced yet again with someone I actually agree with, having a crack at me for things I don&#8217;t believe. I made the comments because I&#8217;ve seen increasing numbers of parents who have been told that their children have autistic features by lay people when they do not. Just as misdiagnosis is damaging for families of ASD  children, it is also damaging for families where children are not ASD. No one is helped by misdiagnosis. No one. I wasn&#8217;t trying to grandstand but was trying to say exactly the opposite (ie &#8220;I don&#8217;t know enough about autism to make an accurate clinical diagnosis, but I at least know enough to know my limitations in that regard. I have come across a range of professionals who make this diagnosis who shouldn&#8217;t because, like me, they aren&#8217;t sufficiently qualified to do it&#8221;) I didn&#8217;t see that as grandstanding but rather was trying to make the point that we need to lift our game. Clearly I didn&#8217;t do a very good job of expressing that. I completely and unreservedly agree about the need for more understanding and information because I too have seen the suffering which ensues when professionals get it wrong, albeit not as a parent. I do believe that common sense isn&#8217;t that common anymore when it comes to raising children, but I also believe that common sense dictates that children with special needs, be that ASD or anything else for that matter, deserve to be seen by people who really know what they&#8217;re doing. I&#8217;ll try and do a better job of expressing that next time.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Brown</title>
		<link>http://humans.org.nz/2010/03/01/common-sense-is-not-common/comment-page-1/#comment-637</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://humans.org.nz/?p=112#comment-637</guid>
		<description>Thanks for dropping by Nigel. I&#039;m sorry you were misquoted, but I can hardly be expected to guess that.

I don&#039;t resile from what I wrote, at all. You were grandstanding in that interview, and your dismissal of &quot;kindy teachers, teachers, psychologists, therapists&quot; who allegedly know less that you do was self-serving.

I have two teenage sons who are Asperger. As it happens, our older son was diagnosed subsequent to a referral from his kindergarten, where teachers sensed there was something unusual going on. The diagnosis, not long after Aspergers had entered the DSM, briefly took us aback. You know what we said? &quot;Oh, but that&#039;s just him. He&#039;s just different.&quot;

That lasted about an hour until I found Barb Kirby&#039;s wonderful O.A.S.I.S. website, whereupon things fell into place. We were able to move on from there, and eventually got ORRS support. It might have been easier in the present day, now that the condition it more widely understood. So I don&#039;t relate to your idea of diagnoses being &quot;thrown at parents,&quot; at all. 

Our younger son was diagnosed later -- again in a formal, specialist setting. That was a bit of a shock. But I feel lucky that we were in Auckland, were we were at least able to get a timely assessment. I&#039;ve known people in other centres desperate to get a formal diagnosis.

Are there informal diagnoses being made in classroom and clinical settings? Yes. Are some of them wrong? Sure. But I regard that as a lesser evil than a child who may have a profoundly different experience of the world being overlooked or held to standards he or she cannot meet. We suffered through inappropriate behavioural strategies for years (notably from one particular GSE worker) so I tend to think of a broader awareness of ASD conditions as an improvement, on balance.  Even a child who doesn&#039;t meet formal diagnostic criteria might display some symptomatic behaviour, and benefit from some more nuanced thinking about what makes him tick.

After a lot of soul-searching, we did opt for medication for our younger boy -- a low-dose SSRI to treat his disabling  anxiety (this is an increasingly common off-book treatment for adult Aspies, but that will be his choice) . We also removed him from school. The improvement was profound. We don&#039;t know what the future holds, but we have gone from three years of near-daily meltdowns to a loving, open family life. I&#039;m just glad we were smart and strong enough to resist the behavioural solutions pressed on us by some people (including, unbelievably, sending him to a residential facility).

We&#039;re not pushing our children to be &quot;normal&quot; -- parents who do that wind up in some bad places; they&#039;re often grieving for the children they didn&#039;t have. I know my children are different, they know they&#039;re different.  An ASD diagnosis has helped us understand how they&#039;re different. A personal level, it&#039;s helped me understand how and why &lt;i&gt;people&lt;/i&gt; can be different, and I&#039;m grateful for that.

The post above was fuelled to some extent by a recent radio interview you did, in which the concept of common sense was extensively aired. After nearly 20 years of autism in the family, I&#039;m all too aware of the limits of &quot;common sense&quot; in our job of parenting.

There&#039;s a forthcoming story in North &amp; South magazine that looks at all these issues in an informed, rounded way. I hope lots of people read it. In contrast, Nigel, I just wish you&#039;d be a bit more careful about what you say in the media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for dropping by Nigel. I&#8217;m sorry you were misquoted, but I can hardly be expected to guess that.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t resile from what I wrote, at all. You were grandstanding in that interview, and your dismissal of &#8220;kindy teachers, teachers, psychologists, therapists&#8221; who allegedly know less that you do was self-serving.</p>
<p>I have two teenage sons who are Asperger. As it happens, our older son was diagnosed subsequent to a referral from his kindergarten, where teachers sensed there was something unusual going on. The diagnosis, not long after Aspergers had entered the DSM, briefly took us aback. You know what we said? &#8220;Oh, but that&#8217;s just him. He&#8217;s just different.&#8221;</p>
<p>That lasted about an hour until I found Barb Kirby&#8217;s wonderful O.A.S.I.S. website, whereupon things fell into place. We were able to move on from there, and eventually got ORRS support. It might have been easier in the present day, now that the condition it more widely understood. So I don&#8217;t relate to your idea of diagnoses being &#8220;thrown at parents,&#8221; at all. </p>
<p>Our younger son was diagnosed later &#8212; again in a formal, specialist setting. That was a bit of a shock. But I feel lucky that we were in Auckland, were we were at least able to get a timely assessment. I&#8217;ve known people in other centres desperate to get a formal diagnosis.</p>
<p>Are there informal diagnoses being made in classroom and clinical settings? Yes. Are some of them wrong? Sure. But I regard that as a lesser evil than a child who may have a profoundly different experience of the world being overlooked or held to standards he or she cannot meet. We suffered through inappropriate behavioural strategies for years (notably from one particular GSE worker) so I tend to think of a broader awareness of ASD conditions as an improvement, on balance.  Even a child who doesn&#8217;t meet formal diagnostic criteria might display some symptomatic behaviour, and benefit from some more nuanced thinking about what makes him tick.</p>
<p>After a lot of soul-searching, we did opt for medication for our younger boy &#8212; a low-dose SSRI to treat his disabling  anxiety (this is an increasingly common off-book treatment for adult Aspies, but that will be his choice) . We also removed him from school. The improvement was profound. We don&#8217;t know what the future holds, but we have gone from three years of near-daily meltdowns to a loving, open family life. I&#8217;m just glad we were smart and strong enough to resist the behavioural solutions pressed on us by some people (including, unbelievably, sending him to a residential facility).</p>
<p>We&#8217;re not pushing our children to be &#8220;normal&#8221; &#8212; parents who do that wind up in some bad places; they&#8217;re often grieving for the children they didn&#8217;t have. I know my children are different, they know they&#8217;re different.  An ASD diagnosis has helped us understand how they&#8217;re different. A personal level, it&#8217;s helped me understand how and why <i>people</i> can be different, and I&#8217;m grateful for that.</p>
<p>The post above was fuelled to some extent by a recent radio interview you did, in which the concept of common sense was extensively aired. After nearly 20 years of autism in the family, I&#8217;m all too aware of the limits of &#8220;common sense&#8221; in our job of parenting.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a forthcoming story in North &#038; South magazine that looks at all these issues in an informed, rounded way. I hope lots of people read it. In contrast, Nigel, I just wish you&#8217;d be a bit more careful about what you say in the media.</p>
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